{"operation":"document","citation":"19-0138","title":"Gorick Construction Co., Inc. — Hazardous Materials Safety Interpretation","source_type":"guidance","agency":"Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration","status":"guidance","official":true,"published_on":"2020-05-08","effective_on":null,"summary":"19-0138 response to Gorick Construction Co., Inc. concerning 172.102, 173.216.","machine_formats":{"json":"https://regulus.evalyn.ai/document/phmsa-interpretation-19-0138.json","markdown":"https://regulus.evalyn.ai/document/phmsa-interpretation-19-0138.md"},"app_url":"https://regulus.evalyn.ai/document/phmsa-interpretation-19-0138","source_url":"https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/phmsa.dot.gov/files/docs/standards-rulemaking/hazmat/interpretations/73821/190138.pdf","body":"<<>>\n\nU.S. Department\nof Transportation\nPipeline and Hazardous\nMaterials Safety\nAdministration\n1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE\nWashington, DC 20590\nMay 8, 2020\nAlfred Gorick\nPresident\nGorick Construction Co., Inc.\n27 Track Drive\nBinghamton, NY 13904\nReference No. 19-0138\nDear Mr. Gorick:\nThis letter is in response to your December 10, 2019, email and subsequent phone conversations\nwith a member of my staff requesting clarification of the Hazardous Materials Regulations\n(HMR; 49 CFR Parts 171-180) applicable to asbestos. Specifically, you ask how the HMR apply\nto the hauling of construction and demolition debris that may contain asbestos. In your email,\nyou state that your company will be hauling debris from the demolition of a condemned structure\nthat was not tested for asbestos, but must be treated as asbestos-containing materials. You also\nstate that the material is thoroughly wetted during demolition and placed in a double poly-lined\ntrailer for disposal. You further state that once the debris is in the trailer for disposal, it will not\nbe dust-producing. You ask whether these materials should be classified as Class 9 hazardous\nmaterials.\nThe answer is yes. For domestic transportation, the HMR identify asbestos as “NA2212,\nAsbestos, 9, PG III.\n” Special Provision 156 in § 172.102 states that asbestos that is immersed or\nfixed in a natural or artificial binder material, such as cement, plastic, asphalt, resins, or mineral\nore, or contained in manufactured products is not subject to the requirements of the HMR.\nHowever, asbestos containing material that has been subject to abrading, sanding, or cutting such\nthat the asbestos is no longer contained in the manufactured article is subject to the HMR.\n\n<<>>\n\nAsbestos must be packaged in accordance with § 173.216. Your company appears to meet the\nrequirements in paragraph (c)(2) of this section. Based on your description of the amount of\nmaterial that is being hauled by your company, you are likely subject to other requirements of\nthe HMR including, but not limited to, registration, training, and hazardous materials\ncommunications.\nI hope this information is helpful. Please contact us if we can be of further assistance.\nSincerely,\nT. Glenn Foster\nChief, Regulatory Review and Reinvention Branch\nStandards and Rulemaking Division\n\n<<>>\n\nFrom: Larson, Ryan (PHMSA)\nTo: Dodd, Alice (PHMSA)\nCc: Foster, Glenn (PHMSA)\nSubject: FW: USDOT hauling reqs\nDate: Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:04:00 PM\nHi Alice,\nPlease process this as a request for interpretation, and assign to myself.\nThank you very much!\nRyan\nRyan Larson\nTransportation Specialist\nStandards and Rulemaking Division\nOffice of Hazardous Materials Safety\nPipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration\nU.S. Department of Transportation\n1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE\nWashington, DC 20590\nRyan.larson@dot.gov\n202-366-5653\nFrom: Al Gorick [mailto:Al@gorickconstruction.com]\nSent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 11:56 AM\nTo: Larson, Ryan (PHMSA) ; JLambert@demolitionassociation.com\nCc: Kochman, Benjamin (PHMSA) ; Schoonover, William (PHMSA)\n; Quade, William (PHMSA) ; Klinger,\nPatricia (PHMSA) ; Davis, Carey (PHMSA) ; Kelley,\nShane (PHMSA) ; Foster, Glenn (PHMSA) ;\nDerKinderen, Dirk (PHMSA) ; Nickels, Matthew (PHMSA)\n; Trevor Moyer ; Andy Tiftt\n\nSubject: RE: USDOT hauling reqs\nRyan,\nWe have received and reviewed your email.\nOne type of material we would be hauling is construction/demolition debris from condemned\nbuildings where no pre demolition asbestos testing was possible.\nAs such the building debris ( wood, masonry, cement, etc) must be assumed to be asbestos\ncontaining debris and treated as such on site. All material is thoroughly wetted during demolition as\nrequired and placed in a double poly lined trailer for disposal.\nOnce wetted debris is encapsulated in the double poly lined trailer for disposal the material will not\n\n<<>>\n\nbe broken or dust producing while being transported to a landfill.\nWould these loads still be considered Class 9 hazardous and require labeling only or would other\nrequirements apply and if so what would they be?\nWe appreciate your time and previous email and look forward to your response so we can proceed\naccordingly\nAl\nAlfred Gorick | President\nGorick Construction Co., Inc.\n27 Track Drive | Binghamton, NY 13904\nW: (607) 775-1765 | F: (607) 775-1608\nal@gorickconstruction.com| | www.gorickconstruction.com\nRound G Logo\nFrom: Larson, Ryan (PHMSA) \nSent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:10 PM\nTo: JLambert@demolitionassociation.com; Al Gorick \nCc: Kochman, Benjamin (PHMSA) ; Schoonover, William (PHMSA)\n; Quade, William (PHMSA) ; Klinger,\nPatricia (PHMSA) ; Davis, Carey (PHMSA) ; Kelley,\nShane (PHMSA) ; Foster, Glenn (PHMSA) ;\nDerKinderen, Dirk (PHMSA) ; Nickels, Matthew (PHMSA)\n\nSubject: FW: USDOT hauling reqs\nGood afternoon gentlemen,\nI understand you have a question about the applicability of the Hazardous Materials Regulations\n(HMR) to the transport of building debris that may contain asbestos. PHMSA has issued Letters of\nInterpretation on this subject that may be of assistance to you (see attached). Specifically, these\nletters state that asbestos that was contained in articles or manufactured products would typically\nnot be regulated as provided in Special Provision 156 in\n§ 172.102. However, when those articles are broken up or there is the possibility that they are now\nproducing dust, they would be a regulated form of asbestos according to the HMR.\nPlease let me know if I can be of any further assistance.\nThank you,\nRyan\nRyan Larson\n\n<<>>\n\nTransportation Specialist\nStandards and Rulemaking Division\nOffice of Hazardous Materials Safety\nPipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration\nU.S. Department of Transportation\n1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE\nWashington, DC 20590\nRyan.larson@dot.gov\n202-366-5653\nFrom: Kochman, Benjamin (PHMSA) \nSent: Friday, December 13, 2019 2:48:50 PM\nTo: Schoonover, William (PHMSA) ; Quade, William (PHMSA)\n\nCc: Klinger, Patricia (PHMSA) \nSubject: FW: USDOT hauling reqs\nGood afternoon,\nPlease see the below inquiry. Any assistance you can provide so I can get back to Jeff would be much\nappreciated. Thanks!\nBen\nFrom: Lambert, Jeff [mailto:JLambert@demolitionassociation.com]\nSent: Friday, December 13, 2019 2:31 PM\nTo: Kochman, Benjamin (PHMSA) \nSubject: FW: USDOT hauling reqs\nHi Ben,\nThank you again for your time today. Below is an email a member sent me regarding New York DoT.\nMy member has differing agencies in the state of New York interpreting regulation of trucking of\ndebris and PHMSA regulations and is looking for a letter of interpretation regarding transportation of\nasbestos. His email explains in greater detail but he is looking for something to point to if he is\nquestioned during inspection.\nAny assistance would be appreciated either a contact or an interpretation.\nThanks so much for your time. Let me know if you have any questions and safe travel.\n\n<<>>\n\nJeff\nFrom: Al Gorick \nSent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 4:43 PM\nTo: Lambert, Jeff \nCc: Trevor Moyer ; Andy Tiftt \nSubject: USDOT hauling reqs\nJeff,\nNice chatting today.\nI appreciate your prompt response and help.\nSo here is our situation in a nut shell.\nWe are completing a demolition of an unsafe/ condemned structure. As such no asbestos testing can\nbe completed and demolition must be done as a “controlled demolition” under NYSDOL guidelines.\nAll workers must be certified asbestos workers and all debris must be handled as RACM while on\nsite. The trucks need to be lined and covered with double layers of poly for containment. Debris\nmust be disposed of as Asbestos containing at the landfill per NYSDEC and have waste manifests\nidentifying it as such.\nAll of this is being done.\nThe problem that has come up is with the trucking of the debris and the interpretation of the phmsa\nregulations. We , along with every other waste hauler and demolition contractor in NY hauls this\nmaterial as bulk friable construction waste. As discussed, 99% of the time in DOT road checks the\ntrucks and manifests are reviewed and they are allowed proceed to the landfill with no issues. Only 2\ntimes have we been tagged for hauling hazardous waste and told we need to placard such loads and\ncomply with phmsa regulations including being registered as haz waste haulers because asbestos is\nconsidered haz waste. This is NOT the case. We would not be allowed to dispose of this material , if\nit was haz waste, in the landfills we use as they cannot accept haz waste but they can accept\nasbestos. This situation results from 3 different regulators ( NYSDOL, NYSDEC,DOT) trying to regulate\nthe same thing but with different rules.\nSimply put, we are hauling C&D debris that MAY be contaminated with asbestos and complying with\nhandling and disposal reqs. It seems that the troopers who have cited us for such are interpreting\nthe haz mat law for enforcement while not fully understanding the law.\nWe have always been advised that the troopers are suppose to enforce the intent of the law , not\ninterpret the law. Hauling RACM is certainly not the same as hauling hazardous waste and it should\nnot be interpreted as such.\nThis is not asbestos material that can be pulverized with had pressure as defined by asbestos regs.\nI will forward some information that we have found to support out thoughts here.\nSimply put, what we are looking for is some type of decision/ letter that states what we hare hauling\nis NOT considered hazardous material but regulated waste.\n\n<<>>\n\nSorry for the long winded email but wanted to try and cover all items.\nI will send a couple other emails with links for your review.\nPlease feel free to stop in and say hello when passing through Binghamton anytime. We are right off\n181 in Kirkwood.\nThanks for all of your help.\nAl\nAlfred Gorick | President\nGorick Construction Co., Inc.\n27 Track Drive | Binghamton, NY 13904\nW: (607) 775-1765 | F: (607) 775-1608\nal@gorickconstruction.com| | www.gorickconstruction.com\nRound G Logo\nFrom: Lambert, Jeff <|Lambert@demolitionassociation.com>\nSent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 3:37 PM\nTo: Al Gorick \nSubject: My Contact\nJeffrey K. Lambert, CAE\nChief Executive Officer\nNational Demolition Association\n2025 M Street NW | Suite 800| Washington, D.C.\nDirect: 202.367.1248 Mobile: 703.283.5904\nNDA\nThe National Demolition Association (NDA) is the voice of the Demolition Industry - representing nearly 500 companies\nengaged in a wide range of services. The NDA provides networking opportunities, education, discounts on products and\nservices, advocacy, and industry updates to members while increasing public awareness of the economic and societal benefits\nof demolition.\nJoin |Events |Twitter |Facebook | LinkedIn | Website","truncated":false,"body_characters":11596}